tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post5778181978593766875..comments2023-11-24T03:48:54.813-05:00Comments on No More Hornets: Exterminator at a Loss for Words?The Exterminatorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14452054124550486048noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-54365133322292072352007-08-30T01:36:00.000-04:002007-08-30T01:36:00.000-04:00BTW, I've been voting for twenty-six years now, an...BTW, I've been voting for twenty-six years now, and I can't REMEMBER when I "trusted" any politician, whether or not I voted for him!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-71807230030554428252007-08-30T01:27:00.000-04:002007-08-30T01:27:00.000-04:00Ex,I agree with Blacksun. If we want to wrest the ...Ex,<BR/><BR/>I agree with Blacksun. If we want to wrest the WH back from the Republicans, we have to walk a fine, fine line. And you will notice that NO ONE except for Edwards even came close to answering the original question. <BR/><BR/>Can't agree with Blacksun about Gravel, though. When I began to read Gavel's response, I half-expected to hear a Barry Manilow song start playing in the background! lol.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-24681437472343700882007-08-29T19:39:00.000-04:002007-08-29T19:39:00.000-04:00OOT: It's disconcerting to be merely J:, and confu...OOT: <BR/><BR/>It's disconcerting to be merely J:, and confusing that there's 3 Johns in these comments.<BR/><BR/>BTW: I've pointed out before just how much religion is embedded in our language and culture. <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_%28name%29" REL="nofollow">John</A>, for example.John Moraleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16354725997954085678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-45429502933112896012007-08-29T14:32:00.000-04:002007-08-29T14:32:00.000-04:00'as you can see (I was somewhat timid when creatin...'as you can see (I was somewhat timid when creating the account).'<BR/><BR/>Well, now that you have exploded on to the scene and we all know that you are "John (not just "J") Morales" and located somewhere on the continent of Australia, we can take you more seriously!<BR/><BR/>Just kidding... annonymity is cool. At least with me. I'm "John - Evolutionary Middleman" - what the HELL does THAT mean??John Evohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10868904051881865159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-39545430355322999912007-08-28T20:22:00.000-04:002007-08-28T20:22:00.000-04:00Addendum:I have corrected my blogger display name,...Addendum:<BR/><BR/>I have corrected my blogger display name, as you can see (I was somewhat timid when creating the account).John Moraleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16354725997954085678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-90506555562167997062007-08-28T20:06:00.000-04:002007-08-28T20:06:00.000-04:00Yikes! I'd hate being a politician!Admit it, you'...Yikes! I'd <I>hate</I> being a politician!<BR/><BR/>Admit it, you're just jealous of my use of euphemism and felicitous phrasing :)<BR/><BR/>Seriously, though, I'm on your side and cheer you on. I was merely quibbling your protestation of, ahem, stupefaction upon encountering said broadcast.John Moraleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16354725997954085678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-44832351656923734572007-08-28T19:47:00.000-04:002007-08-28T19:47:00.000-04:00J:Well, I'll have to remember to use "visceral" as...J:<BR/><BR/>Well, I'll have to remember to use "visceral" as a euphemism for "stupid." <BR/><BR/>You're quite a politician yourself.The Exterminatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14452054124550486048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-63208571420607745762007-08-28T19:00:00.000-04:002007-08-28T19:00:00.000-04:00Fair enough.A couple of clarifications:I live in S...Fair enough.<BR/><BR/>A couple of clarifications:<BR/><BR/>I live in South Australia, not the USA (so I have to put up with far less public piety than you), and am not a stakeholder in this issue.<BR/><BR/>I tend to choose my words deliberately. If I had wished to say they were lying, or that the electorate is stupid, I would have.<BR/><BR/>An analogy of what I meant would be my persona when I am at work, compared to when I am, say, relaxing with friends or engaged in competitive sport.<BR/>Politicians are basically "at work" whenever in public, and so I said "at all times".<BR/><BR/>I'm sure you've seen examples of the brouhaha when, inadvertently, a politician says or does something contrary to their party line. They probably feel that sort of thing is not good for their re-election chances.<BR/><BR/>In the specific instance you posted about, though, they were "officially" hard at work.<BR/><BR/>So far as the electorate goes, I think you're being a little harsh.<BR/>I do agree that most people either don't bother to or can't critically analyse political claims, and seem to take a more... visceral approach to their assessment thereof.John Moraleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16354725997954085678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-72032439863351970622007-08-28T13:07:00.000-04:002007-08-28T13:07:00.000-04:00J Morales:You can't have it both ways. Either the ...J Morales:<BR/><BR/>You can't have it both ways. Either the candidates are "tailoring their public persona and sound-bites at all times" (<I>i.e.</I> they lie), or they reveal information about themselves. Yes, you could argue that the way they choose to lie reveals information about them, but that's still accepting a premise I don't think we should. If the candidates are lying, then <I>all</I> the information they reveal is suspect. Anyone who has ever served on a jury can tell you that.<BR/><BR/>Now, I agree with your implied statement that the electorate is made up of idiots. But my point is: you and I don't have to be among them.The Exterminatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14452054124550486048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-64691292042354562182007-08-28T05:09:00.000-04:002007-08-28T05:09:00.000-04:00Sorry, I realize I've only answered your first que...Sorry, I realize I've only answered your first question.<BR/><BR/>Regarding the second question, I believe that some politicians view the opportunity to speak in response to a question as a license to say whatever they like.<BR/><BR/>I don't know how many times, in my youth, I was exasperated and thinking "nice answer, but <I>not to the question that was asked!</I>"<BR/><BR/>But of course, as I said in my original comment, it is still information.John Moraleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16354725997954085678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-3912383760833586582007-08-28T04:51:00.000-04:002007-08-28T04:51:00.000-04:00I consider you're in that position because of the ...I consider you're in that position because of the voters themselves, in aggregate.<BR/><BR/>The candidates are (almost by definition because of the position they are in) excellent politicians.<BR/>Excellent politicians have great skill at being elected. This they do by tailoring their public persona and sound-bites at all times.<BR/><BR/>I admit that I believe that they would not use this approach, were they of the opinion that another approach would be more successful.<BR/><BR/>If this is so, then the solution is to somehow change the candidates' perception of the electorate.<BR/><BR/>(Sigh)<BR/>Real life is messy.John Moraleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16354725997954085678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-14038017526971494832007-08-27T16:54:00.000-04:002007-08-27T16:54:00.000-04:00j morales: Yes, C. L.'s point is excellent. But wh...<B>j morales:</B> <BR/>Yes, C. L.'s point is excellent. But why should I, a voter, be put in the position of having to "translate" what the candidates say? Why didn't a single one of them respond, "I object to that question on the grounds that it's irrelevant"?<BR/><BR/><B>slut:</B><BR/>You said <I>I also thought Gravel sounded like a closet atheist or at least agnostic. </I> OK, so why is he in the closet? Are we supposed to support that craven position?The Exterminatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14452054124550486048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-83450624628129920872007-08-25T00:02:00.000-04:002007-08-25T00:02:00.000-04:00Hey, what's wrong with advocating a little more lo...Hey, what's wrong with advocating a little more love on the planet? You know: "make love, not war"? Maybe if George had gotten a blow job from an intern he wouldn't have had time or inclination to invade Iraq. Maybe if he actually had some compassion for people he wouldn't be so cavalier about killing tens of thousands of human beings. <BR/><BR/>I also thought Gravel sounded like a closet atheist or at least agnostic. <BR/><BR/>I was disappointed with all the other replies, although I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.Reason's Whorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09386477323714963087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-3773752005297303872007-08-21T22:17:00.000-04:002007-08-21T22:17:00.000-04:00I know you asked "But by what criteria are we to d...I know you asked "But by what criteria are we to decipher what they really think?" somewhat rhetorically, but I can't resist providing an answer.<BR/><BR/>C. L. Hanson's excellent point is one of those criteria. I think there there are others.John Moraleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16354725997954085678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-81838533368736246922007-08-21T14:08:00.000-04:002007-08-21T14:08:00.000-04:00Philly:Well, Gravel may be technically OK in the f...<B>Philly</B>:<BR/>Well, Gravel may be technically OK in the faith area, but his emphasis on "love" smacks a little of veiled sixties-style Christianity to me. In any case, he's really OUT there. You're right, though: If he had said "reason" instead of "love" I'd be campaigning for him. <BR/><BR/><B>C.L.</B><BR/>Excellent point. Too bad Stephanopoulos didn't follow up with a second (and third) question: If prayer has no practical effect, why bother? Can't people find other ways to give themselves strength in crises?The Exterminatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14452054124550486048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-78267469142553512802007-08-21T08:32:00.000-04:002007-08-21T08:32:00.000-04:00I think it's interesting that none of them said th...I think it's interesting that none of them said that prayer would have any effect on the physical outcome of anything. They almost all found some way of saying "If you want something real to happen you need to actually do something real. Yet prayer is still <I>very, very important</I>!!! Because God uses his miraculous supernatural powers to make you feel better."C. L. Hansonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12698855413639518095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-3631665493418693932007-08-21T01:03:00.000-04:002007-08-21T01:03:00.000-04:00Wow I was scrolling through here thinking "am I th...Wow I was scrolling through here thinking "am I the only one who saw Gravel as giving the best answer"? Thanks John for saying it first.<BR/><BR/>Look closely, because his answer could be that of a closet atheist. He said "so you can pray", not "so I pray". He never admits to praying or any belief in a deity. In fact, he went on to point out that it's the ones praying that are in a rush to go to war. So for those keeping score, he's the ONLY ONE to:<BR/>• not say he prays<BR/>• not admit to a belief in a deity<BR/>• cast those who do pray in a poor light <BR/>Furthermore, he emphasizes that the answer lies in people.<BR/><BR/>If he said "reason" instead of "love", he would have hit a grandslam. Anyway, it was far and away the best answer.PhillyChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03355892225956705948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-61974534037180007402007-08-20T18:56:00.000-04:002007-08-20T18:56:00.000-04:00Exterminator - I have to disagree with you on this...Exterminator - I have to disagree with you on this one. I think Gravel gave the ONLY statement that I could live with.<BR/><BR/>At NO POINT in his answer did he kowtow to faith in ANY FORM. Did he sound kind of faded? Yeah. He's smokin' some good stuff! But look closely at his answer and compare it to every other answer, including Edwards, and you'll see he is the only one coming from a somewhat rationalist viewpoint.<BR/><BR/>Why do these people believe that they have to pander to religion? Has anyone ever tried to express their own decency in atheistic terms and then gotten their butts handed to them for it? I don't think any Presidential candidate has ever TRIED to articulate an answer like the one you presented. <BR/><BR/>Maybe a whole lot of people would say "AHHHH, what a breath of fresh air! I believe there's a god out there somewhere, he (or she) doesn't, but I really ADMIRE his/her honesty"! <BR/><BR/>Now, I'm not an idiot. I know this could never work for a Republican candidate in the primaries. They have made their party and they have to stew in it. But the Dems? Come on! It could be a brilliant strategy and it may finally get this nation over the hump and we could join the rest of the world's great democracies in NOT making religion a political issue!<BR/><BR/>Then there is the scary possibility that they were all being completely honest.John Evohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10868904051881865159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-30749709715693406382007-08-20T16:33:00.000-04:002007-08-20T16:33:00.000-04:00It always amazes me to hear a group of people answ...It always amazes me to hear a group of people answering a question like that and <I>all of them</I> taking God's existence as a given. It's scary when I think that they're candidates to be arguably the most powerful person on this planet.<BR/><BR/>My vote still goes to the Exterminator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-42129660639970995842007-08-20T14:40:00.000-04:002007-08-20T14:40:00.000-04:00John:Yes, Biden's response was marginally better t...<B>John</B>:<BR/>Yes, Biden's response was marginally better than some of the others. But did you count the number of times he mentioned the cross?<BR/><BR/><B>J. Morales</B>:<BR/>Mr. Ford's question had no place in the debate because (1) religion should have no role in American politics, (2) we've already heard the same type of query <I>ad nauseam</I>, and (3) it was a softball question which elicited bucketsful of meaningless crap. Yes, voters will use all kinds of ridiculous criteria to decide which candidate to vote for, but the media doesn't have to encourage a simple relgiious test. I've previously suggested some <A HREF="http://nomorehornets.blogspot.com/2007/04/dont-expect-these-on-meet-press.html" REL="nofollow">more revealing questions</A> about the candidates' religious positions. And here are a series of queries that would reveal <A HREF="http://nomorehornets.blogspot.com/2007/06/thoughtful-and-educated-too-much-to-ask.html" REL="nofollow">other cultural attitudes</A>.<BR/><BR/>As far as being naive to take the candidates' answers at face value, of course you're right. But by what criteria are we to decipher what they really think? Should American voters silently condone being lied to by people who want to become their president? Haven't we had enough of that during the current administration?<BR/><BR/><B>Sarge</B>:<BR/>Aha! Now I understand why some of the presidential contenders say we'll have to make sacrifices.The Exterminatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14452054124550486048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-52237727486053223772007-08-20T08:07:00.000-04:002007-08-20T08:07:00.000-04:00All very good points. The message from the candida...All very good points. The message from the candidates seemed to be, "live your life by ritual and slogan, leave reality to others." <BR/><BR/>If the vote of traditionalist Hawaiians suddenly became the most important thing to get one elected I can imagine that the throwing of virgins down calderas would become a signifigant thing. They would probably with ernsst gravity endorse such a practice as being an important charactor indicator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-77619571492626606502007-08-20T04:36:00.000-04:002007-08-20T04:36:00.000-04:00"THE EXTERMINATOR: I think Mr. Ford’s question has..."THE EXTERMINATOR: I think Mr. Ford’s question has no place in this debate."<BR/><BR/>Why not?<BR/><BR/>Information is useful - the answers reveal their public position, but you'd have to be naive to accept them at face value.<BR/><BR/>I suspect Blacksun is pointing out that they're politicians seeking votes. And their lips were presumably moving.John Moraleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16354725997954085678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-15601278055236651352007-08-19T23:30:00.000-04:002007-08-19T23:30:00.000-04:00What I want to know is - for Darwins's sake (not t...What I want to know is - for Darwins's sake (not the evolutionary Japanese drink), why are you not watching football? It's Sunday!<BR/><BR/>I thought Biden did the best job, while still in full <A HREF="http://spaninquis.wordpress.com/2007/06/04/brownbacking-a-new-political-verb/" REL="nofollow">Brownbacking</A> mode, when he said:<BR/><B>The answer to the gentleman's question is, no, all the prayer in the world will not stop a hurricane. But prayer will give you the courage to be able to respond to the devastation that's caused in your life and with others to deal with the devastation.</B> <BR/>In other words, you can talk yourself into feeling better about that which you have no power over, and no one else does either. That's semi-realistic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-87782003433949520022007-08-19T22:14:00.000-04:002007-08-19T22:14:00.000-04:00Blacksun:Why do "they have to say it"? Why do "the...Blacksun:<BR/><BR/>Why do "they have to say it"? Why do "they have no choice"? Am I supposed to trust a candidate who, you hint, lies in order to get votes from the religiously motivated? If you're implying that these guys merely acceded to <I>realpolitik</I>, what evidence do I have that they aren't lying about other issues as well?<BR/><BR/>Gravel's answer sounded like a naive song lyric from the late sixties. Nice sentiment, stupid idea. What's he on, anyway? <BR/><BR/>I agree with you only partially about Edwards. His answer demonstrated no small amount of courage, particularly in light of the other nonsense that was being spouted. But I'm hugely disgusted by his claim that it's "enormously important to look to God ... for guidance and wisdom." Why don't we Americans just say "fuck it" and elect a high priest instead of a president?The Exterminatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14452054124550486048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36453833.post-39931926413787115052007-08-19T20:54:00.000-04:002007-08-19T20:54:00.000-04:00I sympathize. But they have no choice. They don't ...I sympathize. But they have no choice. They don't want a Republican in the White House four more years. Much as it galls me, they have to say it. <BR/><BR/>Though I liked Edwards and Gravel's answer the best, especially Edward's part about "I don't think you can prevent bad things from happening through prayer." In other words, it doesn't work.BlackSunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15591731325290405256noreply@blogger.com